The Art of Listening with Larry Stafford
So many people want their hands on the megaphone, whether in the streets or on social media. What if organizers had megaphone-sized ears so we could actually hear what people had to say.
With the release of our new Fundamentals of Community Organizing pamphlet, we are having a series of conversations with organizers about their take on the fundamentals and what they are doing to strengthen the craft. You can get a copy here and join the conversation. We also put it out as an audiobook here.
Larry Stafford was destined to become an organizer. While still a teenager, he saw a news story about politicians attempting to close apartment complexes where his friends lived and he called his local ACORN office to see if he could get involved in the fight. They said yes and his mom drove him down to the office and he went on the doors with an ACORN organizer.
Larry’s first paid organizing job was with Project Vote. He later organized at the New Organizing Institute, including a stretch in Milwaukee, running canvasses and teaching others how to do it. When Occupy Wall Street took off, Larry got involved in the DC offshoot and soon came on staff at the DC Labor Council to do student organizing. He’s spent the last 9 years as the Executive Director for Progressive Maryland. During that time I've seen him do the unglamorous work to remake the organization, now squarely focused on strong organizing in working-class communities.
We got together recently to talk organizing.
What fundamental do you feel is especially essential to teach right now?
Go to where people are - physically, mentally, emotionally. Meeting people where they're at is first going to the community, so there is a physical part to it. You don’t wait for people to show up, you go to the doors. Because if you wait for people to show up, you'll get the folks who are activists, but the people who self-select don’t represent the masses we need to organize. The activists represent a small segment of the masses that already agree with us. But if you go and meet people at the doors, the church, the grocery store, you are gonna be talking to the broad range of people we need to engage who may not already be mobilized to side with us. .
And then emotionally, understanding where people are in how they experience the world. Not everybody wakes up in the morning, you know, proclaiming that they’re leftist or a thinking about fighting for socialism or racial justice. People are more concerned with the things that they are directly experiencing that are causing pain and suffering in their lives. We need to demonstrate to people that we care and understand what they’re going through and meet them where they are at the level of their hearts.
Then, there’s the mental side to it for organizers, starting where people are by actually listening to what the hell people are saying, rather than just trying to come and push, you know, whatever you may think they should care about. The art of listening is missing in many of today’s activist circles and we need to bring it back. I’m a firm believer that everyday people often more aware of the solutions to the problems our communities face and just need support with processing through all of their experiences and taking a step back to recognize what can be done to address their problems.
So many people want their hands on the megaphone whether in the streets or on social media. What if organizers had megaphone-sized ears so we could actually hear what people had to say.
As you read the fundamentals pamphlet, was there a fundamental that is essential to your organizing that was missing?
I would say organized money. If we want to build organizations that are owned by the members, that will need to include dues, people putting their own money in. Otherwise, we are owned in large part by philanthropy. We are grateful that so many foundations have decided to fund organizing - it’s a blessing - and we think it's important that the members also fund organizing.
When the people we are organizing contribute money, as well as their time, they are giving the direction of the organization a big thumbs up. They are also saying this organization is not someone else’s, it is mine, and that is what we want.
Yeah. Something is definitely wrong when members of an organization refer to the organization as “they” or “you all” versus “us and we.”
That's right, and in labor organizing that’s why they say, “don't third party the union.” Well-trained labor organizers are quick to fix that - and dues are part of it - but also just reminding people that you are the union or organization, and providing experiences that make it clear that what happens here in large part comes down to you, the member.
So much of our work is about providing people the opportunity to find meaning. We get people to consider in the limited time that we have on this planet, how we might make a difference and have some impact that will go beyond our time here. Yes, we want to win a particular policy or propel a candidate to victory, but it's also about helping people figure out what their impact will be and what their legacy will be.
When our organizations become too staff driven and about the individual activist and their megaphone we lose track of the heart of organizing. Far too many organizers and organizations are robbing people of their ability to self actualize.
I wrote this fundamentals pamphlet because things like this were essential for me when first learning to organize. Was there anything like that for you when you were getting started?
At a point when I was really trying to understand my racial identity and the role that played in my position in society, I found a collection of speeches by Marcus Garvey at Karibu Books, a Black bookstore in DC.
It was transformative for me in many ways. In it I learned how Garvey built the largest Black people’s organization in the world, the Universal Negro Improvement Association, not only across the country, but across several continents. This is when I first recognized the power of organization, and I was inspired by the idea that you could build organizations that instill a sense of pride and purpose in folks and move people into collective action that could actually improve our conditions. It was not just about having a good analysis or naming what was wrong, it was about building power and that required organization.
You can learn more about Larry and Progressive Maryland here.